John Wisniewski interviews Timothy Wyllie about his new book Love Sex Fear Death: The Inside Story of The Process Church of the Final Judgment.
When did you begin to experiment with LSD and what did you learn from the use of LSD?
I was very fortunate living in London around 1961/62 in that my girlfriend was an international model who also worked in New York City. She brought back sugar cubes with 400 or 500 mikes of pure acid. Very different from the blotter you see around today. Much more powerful and happily unadulterated. We then experimented with a migraine tablet for sale over the counter called Ergotamine. Between 6 to 12 little yellow pills could develop a major LSD trip, although there was always the risk of a bit of gangrene. I also explored intravenous DMT, DET and Ibogane with aprofessor of organic chemistry at London University.
Why and when did you join The Process and could you tell us about the basic tenets of the religion?
I collaborated with Robert and Mary Ann at the start of theProcess, so I had a hand in creating it. I then left after six monthsand didn’t rejoin until two years later–probably in 1966. I cover thesynchronicities that guided me to rejoin in the book.The cosmology itself is too complex to go into here–you canpick it up from the book. But the aspect most central for me was theconcept of the unity of opposites, that old alchemical saw.
Did you continue using LSD while you were with the Process?
No, all drugs, except cigarettes and alcohol (on rareoccasions) were verboten, and we tended to obey the rules since thepath was about obedience. In the book I talk about one time when I wascompletely unawares someone gave me a spiked acid brownie. I thankedHeaven that I was able to cope with it–if I hadn’t had some previousexperience with entheogens, I would have been totally freaked out!
Did you find that Robert DeGrimston had a powerful aura or personality and did you believe him to be a divine?
No, emphatically, to either. Having studied architecture at thesame college I knew him far too well to mythologize him. Mary Ann,however, was a very different kettle of fish–if you don’t mind amackerel-man metaphor. While that is my opinion, Robert couldcertainly be very charismatic under the spotlight. Not charismaticenough, though.
Did Aleister Crowley”s OTO work in conjunction with The Process and what did The Processans adapt from the OTO?
Sorry to disappoint you here but The Process tended to figurethings out for ourselves. We weren’t influenced by Uncle Al, probablymost people hadn’t even heard of him. But any practice of sex magickis bound to bump into Crowley’s magickal thinking sooner or later. Myown visit to the Abbey was purely a private interest of mine. Therituals we performed came out of our own investigations of sex magickand I don’t believe that we drew any inspiration from outside.
What attracted celebrities like Mick Jagger to The Process Church?
Mick and Marianne’s attraction was simply that we all liked oneanother, it was early in their careers so perhaps they were moreaccessible–no press agents to fight through. At that point in themid-’60s most of our generation thought and felt much same in terms ofwhat was wrong with the world. We just gave them an opportunity tospeak openly and honestly about how they felt. They were never part ofthe group. George Clinton was different. He really dug our message andended up reprinting passages from our magazines in some of his linernotes. But he was never part of the group, either.
Looking back at your life, how did The Process change your life?
Of course. Inevitably and profoundly. But deeper than that, TheProcess actually worked towards my finding my true work in life. Notdirectly, by becoming the life I thought it would be, but bytoughening up my emotional body, developing my empathic and telepathicabilities and by giving me the opportunity to lead and to follow. Italso gave me focus and self-discipline and the knowledge I can handleanything life can throw at me. I can’t say that the life-changing NDEI had in 1973, during my time with The Process, wouldn’t have happenedanyway, whatever I was doing, but my life on The Process sureprecipitated it.I was able to experience my self at my very worst and at my very bestwithin a comparatively safe environment–not something one usuallyencounters in normal life. I established for myself that by throwingmyself wholeheartedly into a project, and that if it is aligned withHigher Purpose, it will come into manifestation. I have now publishedsix books, for example, without ever needing an agent.I don’t believe I knew what personal power was before I gave it overto Mary Ann, and then consciously took it back when I left. So,perhaps that was the most valuable gift of all.
Did you continue communicating with Robert and Mary Anne Degrimston after The Church closed?
I maintained contact with Robert for a few years after I left, butsoon found we had little in common. He’d returned to the corporateworld by that time and I was getting into deeper areas with myresearches into non-human intelligences. He’d settled for what Ithought of as a quotidian existence, whilst I felt I was using some ofthe abilities I’d developed in my time with The Process to further myresearches. I write about my last contact with Robert in the book inwhich he loses his temper with me over the phone. I’ve no idea what hewill feel about the book. I know he tried to write one about TheProcess himself, but was never able to get it published, or even if hecompleted it.I remained very angry with Mary Ann (no ‘e’) for at least ten yearsbefore it finally dissipated. Then many years later, a year or twobefore she died, I recontacted her about her treatment of some peopleI cared for. I soon found that she was just the same as she ever was,still as arrogant, grandiose and deluded and prattling on about pointsof Process cosmology, now hopelessly outdated. I’d hoped we couldreach each other across the void, but settled for the fact that itwasn’t possible. She probably needed to die to get to see andunderstand what she had done.
How was Charles Manson linked to The Process and did you ever speak with him?
The linkage was entirely fabricated, first it appears byScientology who issued a Press Release a day or two after Manson wasarrested to point the finger at us since Scientology material wasapparently found at the Spahn Ranch. This was then picked up and spunby Ed Sanders in his book, The Family, who thought he’d found in TheProcess a cult about which he could make up all sorts of absurdhorrors, cannibalism, human sacrifice, we had dogs, so clearly we mustbe sacrificing them! That sort of rubbish.Now, a couple of years after Manson had been in prison we wereworking on a magazine about death, and rather unwisely a couple of us(not me) went to visit and talk to Manson in jail–after all, weinnocently reasoned, who’d know more about death. In retrospect, ofcourse it was really stupid, but not out of line with the many stupidthings we did. Being so inward looking, I think we were way out oftouch with how regular people thought.For another example, when the publisher of the Americanedition of The Family settled with us out of court, agreeing toeliminate all references to The Process, we made no claim for money,simply to regain our good name. A noble stupidity, in that Mary Annwanted to impress people with how honorable and above-it-all we were,without realizing for one moment that people assess such settlementsin terms of the money awarded. So, not only did we look silly and outof touch with the realities of the marketplace, but when the Englishedition appeared complete with offensive chapter, through our owncontinuing stupidity (the story is in the book–have you read ityet?), we sued again and this time lost in court.
There is another book about The Process Church, written during the 90′s I believe. Would you wish to talk about the book?
I have read William Bainbridge’s book, Satan’s Power, someyears ago so I don’t feel equipped to comment on it in detail. SinceBill spent most of his time with the Toronto Chapter and thenlater with Robert, after Robert had been kicked out by Mary Ann, it’svery much biased in Robert’s direction. There’s no talk of Mary Ann,for example. Bill appears to have no idea The Process was amatriarchy. It’s an academic book, by an academic, for, I assume otheracademics. Having said that, it’s not nearly as dry as it might havebeen. There’s the hint that he thought that we, the rank and file,were being conned into supporting Robert and Mary Ann. But on thewhole he doesn’t make judgments and it’s a pretty fair analysis bysomeone from whom the deeper truths have been withheld.
Could you tell us of the nature of your work with dolphins and why it is it important for us to understand the ways in which animals communicate with each other? How did your study with process aid in this work?
I’d recommend you read my first book, Dolphins ETs & Angels,for a more detailed answer. I approached the dolphins as a poet,simply keeping my eyes, ears and subtle senses open. John C. Lilly hadalready established that dolphins sense apparatus operates about tentimes faster than ours. This was immediately proved to me by atelepathic incident that happened so rapidly that it was hard tobelieve it could have occurred–but it did. After that I was kind ofinducted into this coastal pod off the beach in Clearwater, Florida,and the dolphins experimented on me, and in doing that I was able tolearn about them.So, my interest was less in how dolphins communicate with eachother, that’s pretty obvious, I was more interested in theirtelepathic abilities. My time in The Process was also very muchconcerned with both empathy and telepathy. We spent a long time overthe years training ourselves in these facilities, so much so that Ihave established for myself that telepathy is a latent human ability,that can be developed with time and practice.It was perfectly natural for me to continue my interest in thesubtle senses after I left the group and a series of synchronicitiesshowed me that it was towards the dolphins I need to turn for furtherunderstanding. After playing with both captive and wild dolphins indifferent parts of the world I wrote my second book, which wasoriginally titled, Dolphins, Telepathy & Underwater Birthing, althoughit’s been retitled Adventures Among Spiritual Intelligences, in thecurrent edition.It’s my belief that a developed telepathic ability will be tothe advantage as we starting encountering more and more telepathicextraterrestrial races over the next few years. Telepathy can be verydisturbing for the normal human being, all that awful stuff they haverepressed comes up and terrifies them. So the key to developingtelepathy is to work on all the repressed trauma so that one’sconscience and consciousness is clear and open. At that point it’spossible to receive and to be able to know what is self-generated andwhat is authentically telepathically received.
