John Wisniewski interviews Frater Urbain, member of the infamous Conspirators of the Occult.Conspirators composed music for Kenneth Anger’s Lucifer Rising. Has Ken heard the music?
I was watching Invocation of my Demon Brother while working on the Piece Metatron and noticed the pacing was the same. We found by accident that almost all of Angers footage would easily sync with our music with practically no editing. So we put a few shorts together for our own entertainment. later we decided to share a couple with anyone who may be interested. lucifer rising is one of everyone’s favorite films so we scored the whole film for our own pleasure.
There is a lot more footage around the Estate that will probably never be seen. We also have quite a bit of Nosferatu scored but lost interest when we realized how many times it had been done before. We try not to go to the well too many times when it comes to Anger’s films, although it’s tempting. I’m pretty sure it’s far from public domain and we wouldn’t want to disrespect anyone’s work.
Anyone who enjoys his work should check out a remastered box set of his films recently released by fantomas films. I am not sure if anger has any knowledge of it but I would hope he would at least not be annoyed. He is a great artist and it is done out of deep respect. Anger’s work and lectures introduced me to the virtue of Crowley’s knowledge. We try to share and show tribute to the great artist that have shaped us. There is a lot of media out there cluttering things up. Some of that clutter should at least be valid entertainment.
When did Conspirators get together and was there a mutual interest in occult films, and soundtrack music?
The CotO have intersected and revolved around each others lives for a long time. Even though all are very different. There are enough common interest to pull everyone together for what the CotO consider worthwhile projects. Not to say it’s easy. So many conflicts of opinion exist in every aspect including theology, occult, religion and general attitude, but everyone involved enjoys the creative process. Getting almost everyone’s input into a solid comprehensible state can be a severely daunting task similar to gift-wrapping chaos. Everyone has an agenda and hardly anyone agrees on the same thing at the same time. When it comes to reference and symbolism there is always heavy conflict, Some Conspirators are quite dark and this can conflict with the goals of the slightly more benevolent members.
The bottom line is always to achieve what we consider an interesting quality piece of work. If someone is introduced to anything new, it is a welcomed, but not a necessary by-product. The only thing the CotO can discuss without a severe argument is music and film. Everyone can find a middleground on those subjects. For the most part we all may not respect the same artist but collectively share a dislike of a few enough to rally mutual opposition.
Are there any plans to score a feature film?
That would definitely be a something that we would be highly interested in right now all focus is on the DEADBEAT MEDIA cd. The material has been there for quite a while but we had to start from scratch a couple of times due to a few major mishaps. We’re now in the final mastering stage and the material has come a long way from the demos that are accessible online
Who are some of your influences?
Our influences change almost by the hour but the main core of the CotO project obviously has been influenced by cult and occult films, and artist like Black Sabbath, Jodorowsky, Lovecraft, Goblin, Jacula, Kenneth Anger, Grant Morrison, Crowley, Gurdjieff, some 70′s prog and 90′s thrash/hardcore and of course composers like Morricone, Bernard Herrman, Jerry Goldsmith, Kilar, Fabio Frizzi. We also enjoy people considered intellectual rebels like Tesla or people who seem to be almost supernaturally controversial like Rasputin or Carlo Gesualdo or Joris Huysman. It really opens a pandoras referencing our influences ,but that is the short list. Personally very early influences were local horror host and movies.
The music in those old Hammer and Amicus films always caught my ear especially the Theremin but at the time I didn’t know there was such a thing as soundtrack albums. I went on to discover bands like Sabbath, Pink Floyd ,Zappa and Beefheart and films like the Exorcist and the Omen and of course later I would find heavier sounds and more extreme cinema. I also developed a deeper understanding of the references made in the films I had been watching since childhood. Suddenly the Devil Rides Out and other similar films were enjoyable on a new level.
Gnosticism and occult study is a pretty obvious theme in the CotO. The whole project is a sort of hypersigil. Not necessarily like Grant Morrisson’s the Invisibles but similar. When you mix the Conspirators particular talents you achieve a form of if not chaos magick then at least chaotic magick.
Your true identities are kept secret Does this add to the mystery and mystique of the group?
This project and anyone it would appeal to have no interest in seeing yet another person posing languidly or wildly with an instrument. That sort of thing has it’s place, but it has never been necessary or appropriate for the CotO. We are very open in our personal correspondence. But the CotO is a different situation where all is welcome with the exception of politics and posturing. I honestly have never given any thought to whether or not there would be a mystique involved. Things are developing somewhat naturally. As far as the world knows we are a very new entity and not exactly high profile .
It’s not an ongoing mystery situation like the Residents. Josef is Josef and Urbain is Urbain . Whatever else you choose to believe is up to the individual. I hope the music speaks well enough for itself. That is who we are. I am sure most musicians or artist of any type can relate to that. So much time and genuine effort goes into a creation. If you keep giving it your energy it can become an entity to itself fueled by that energy. The CotO is a hypersigil. The sights, the sounds, the written words are all to entertain yet also exist on another level. There is no real truth in an identity. Beings are not what they or others perceive them to be.
What do the members do when they are not composing?
I can’t speak for anyone else the Conspirators of the Occult are an eclectic group of artist that occasionally unite to create. When you factor in internet collaborations it would be hard, even strange to keep up with every ones habits. It is a rare occasion when I am not working on music or the tools used to create it. Writing and performing music is enjoyable and comes easy. It isn’t a quick process but it feels that way. If I stay at it in 8 to 12 hours I can have a decent demo of a tune. With all instruments, orchestration and some samples. All the problem solving and creating that goes into composing doesn’t bother me in the least. I’ll do this daily for a short period. During that time there is little time for anything else and even sleep is invaded with work. When the well begins to echo I take a break and pursue whatever esoteric thing that can distract me. Then the production end begins, which can be frustrating. Engineering and troubleshooting whatever devices you use come into play. Of course there are usually technical and financial limitations that are involved with self contained and underground projects.
For those of us who may not be familiar with the film Haxan could you tell us about the film and your use of the film to accompany your music?
Haxan is an extremely entertaining documentary / film by Benjamin Christensen that has surfaced in several incarnations. The most bizarre version is Witchcraft through the Ages. I would see photos and snippets of footage once in a while of this devil flipping his tongue around behind a pulpit. It was obviously old footage but the make up effects were very impressive. I did some searching and found an old vhs of Haxan. I thought this film was about as impressive as it could get until I discovered a version with William S. Burroughs narrating and Jean Luc Ponty on the soundtrack. I seriously suspected I was hallucinating. I couldn’t believe these worlds were merging in such great way. In hindsight this version of the film may have had a larger impact on me than I have realized.
There have been many soundtracks to Haxan. But mixing Jazz ,Burroughs and Esoteric lore took this film to a new level of artistic expression. The footage in Haxan is far to wonderful to ignore. We have used it several times. Bethlehelle used it with the composition Fight of the Gimps and Project Urbain has used some of it’s footage for the Loudin Louviers Incident, Mixed with several other films from the Nunsploitation genre. Jodorowsky’s El Topo and Holy Mountain. Ken Russels the Devils, the works of Kenneth Anger and Haxan all have been a huge influence on the style of the CotO. As much as any text we have encountered. It may seem at odds but the influence of Gurdjieff and Crowely are very present at all times also. They led conflicting lives but if you listen to both with an open mind. You can learn quite a bit. Crowley is overexposed and sensationalized, but still very important. He seems to be the gateway magus for most people.
We find inspiration in more modern forms of text also. The Filth and the Invisibles by Grant Morrison are graphic novels that have a huge impact. Alan Moore and Neil Gaima the art of Berni Wrightson and frank frazetta all of these things are amazing. If we’re touching on influence You can’t leave out people like Robert Anton Wilson, David lynch, and Marshall MCluhan either. I have been avoiding going to deep into the Musical influences because it becomes very involved.
Maybe you name just a few musical influences for us and perhaps give us an idea of how you select images to compliment the music.
Not everything that has influenced us can be heard directly in the music. Capt Beefheart is a huge inspiration but you would never listen to the CotO and think “that sounds like the Magic Band”. The same goes for Les Baxter who is mostly known for dreamy lounge, but he has done some good horror soundtracks also. His score to the Dunwich Horror is great. We love 70′s fusion and prog rock bands like Return to Forever, the Mahavishnu orchestra, Le Orme, Museo Rosenbach and Cherry Five which is an early incarnation of Goblin.
That brings up the whole soundtrack influence. I remember when I was a kid watching horror films I thought some of this music doesn’t seem to fit. I was used to the James Bernard, Morricone and Bernard Herrmann school of sound. But later I came to really love the music of Goblin, Rizzati, Giombini and Ortaloni who has done some amazing western scores and of course the great Fabio Frizzi. The way they would use a Mellotron, Synth and the great bass tones in those eerie rock fusion compositions is a really special thing. They really stand on their own. Claudio Simonetti proves it with Daemonia which plays the Goblin material with a somewhat harder edge.
We are obviously into heavier sounds Black Sabbath, Deicide, Slayer, Black Flag and bands considered classic rock like Pink Floyd and Deep Purple. Jacula and Coven are very good occult rock bands. Jacula is really an amazing experience a great atmospheric ride. On the experimental side the Residents, Einsturzen Neubauten and Luigi Russolo have pretty much already covered most anything we think of. There is a mutated element of black metal in some of our compositions also but the classic horror theme is the king in our world. Carpenter , Goldsmith, Herrmann, Komeda. They have created sounds that are instantly recognized as much as any classical piece or product jingle. You can hear two notes and instantly have an emotional reaction. Jaws being the most obvious example. The soundtrack to Halloween really set in stone what a good horror soundtrack can do to help a film or even a character in the film. The symbiotic relationship between music and film is really interesting. Tubular Bells gives people chills but without the context of the Exorcist it really wouldn’t have the same effect. Ave Satana from the Omen on the other hand is a powerful dark piece. Intimidating on it’s own. Goldsmith really captures the reality where the films characters exist. I can listen to the Planet of the Apes music and really get a feel for the story. The good composers seem to have a special empathy for the films. You can really feel the melancholy and disorientation of Rosemary when you hear Lullaby. Komeda really hit the nail on the head with that tune.
The CotO images have a place of their own. We get positive and negative responses concerning them. People miss or misunderstand some of the symbolism. If you take the images at face value they should appeal to a fan of gothic horror and underground cinema. You can also recognize a few important esoteric figures. looking deeper is not necessary but could kill some time if you’re bored. We get positive and negative responses about the samples also. Some find them intrusive others think they make the song. To us they are just part of the composition. I like it when a band uses soundbytes. Jacula, Venom ,Pink Floyd and Skinny Puppy have used spoken word and samples for a while. I think it really adds to the experience.
